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In the Grievances - Fundamental Problems for RoXoR to fix
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VxJasonxV
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20. PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tortoise wrote:
The loading times are bad enough to cause heart rate to drop too much between songs. So in that regard, ITG is not nearly as effective for fitness as DDR is.
Fitness/Marathons have very low load times in comparison I thought?
Do an endless fitness instead of a song-select endless. (If that even exists...)

Char wrote:
.hack//*cough* wrote:
You can thank Konami for that.

Supposedly they have a patent on Edit Mode for home consoles.
That sounds like a load of rubbish. As I heard it, bugs with the USB driver couldn't be resolved in time to meet the deadline, so it got yanked.
USB Supports was not solely for Edit mode, since they also nixxed profiles frown.gif.
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wrath04
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21. PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VxJasonxV is a badass.

All you other people must want to feel important talking about things that have been talked about before.


p.s. "Oh no! I have to wait xx.xx more seconds for it to load, WHYYYYY!!!!"
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Cutriss
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22. PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.hack//*cough* wrote:
cfusionpm wrote:
also, a point i brought up briefly that no one else seemed to say anything about was the complete lack of edit mode (which takes away pretty much ALL replay value for me).
You can thank Konami for that.

Supposedly they have a patent on Edit Mode for home consoles.
I have a great inclination to start handing out warning points for people who propagate the stupidest rumors in the world, such as this one.

It'd certainly make me feel better the next time I read some idiot posting about how Konami settled the PIU lawsuit by agreeing to leave the marketplace. >.>
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Mr. A
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23. PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutriss wrote:
.hack//*cough* wrote:
cfusionpm wrote:
also, a point i brought up briefly that no one else seemed to say anything about was the complete lack of edit mode (which takes away pretty much ALL replay value for me).
You can thank Konami for that.

Supposedly they have a patent on Edit Mode for home consoles.
I have a great inclination to start handing out warning points for people who propagate the stupidest rumors in the world, such as this one.

It'd certainly make me feel better the next time I read some idiot posting about how Konami settled the PIU lawsuit by agreeing to leave the marketplace. >.>


I like that idea quite a lot.
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Edible Bondage Tape
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24. PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like that idea too and would sign a petiton to that effect
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rampage
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25. PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a gripe. Event Mode and failures. If you fail a song in Event Mode, it doesn't drop you back to the song wheel. Nope. It drops you alll the way back to the title screen. I'm used to DDR style event mode that always drops you to the song wheel, no matter what. I found this aspect infuriating to the point where I'd just force quit songs once I'd failed to immediately take me back to the song wheel.
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tortoise
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26. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VxJasonxV wrote:

Do an endless fitness instead of a song-select endless.


Ah, yes! fitness mode is excellent! No load times, and you can really set up very specific workouts. Thanks Roxor.
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cj iwakura
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27. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see what the fuss with the load times is.. a sharper interface takes longer to bring up. It's definetly nothing worse than what you'd find in most RPG/action games, why should a rhythm game stand out?

People are just spoiled on DDR's quickness, I think. Higher quality takes longer, that's all, and I've no problems with waiting around a few extra seconds for it.

I found the event mode thing a bit frustrating, but I just consider that a way of inspiring me to not fail. :P
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cfusionpm
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28. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cj iwakura wrote:
I don't see what the fuss with the load times is.. a sharper interface takes longer to bring up. It's definetly nothing worse than what you'd find in most RPG/action games, why should a rhythm game stand out?

People are just spoiled on DDR's quickness, I think. Higher quality takes longer, that's all, and I've no problems with waiting around a few extra seconds for it.

I found the event mode thing a bit frustrating, but I just consider that a way of inspiring me to not fail. E10.gif


actually, loading up the song doesnt seem to take all that long after a while, but the results screen, and going back to the selection screen is just unacceptable. as mentioned here, there is no animation on screen, and for a good couple of seconds, the music stopps and there is nothing on screen, leading you to believe the game has crashed. it has done this after every song i've played, and its very annoying when i just want to get back to the menu and play another song.

the reason it should be better is, by comparison to an rpg or action game, it really isnt loading ANYTHING. is it loading a gigantic, interactive, 3d environment? lots of characters? an interactive physics system? any kind of artificial intelligence? no. its loading some super low polycount 3d arrows, a video, and an audio file. that's it. but still, thats not my concern for the most part. it takes longer to load one (or up to 6) 3d objects and a 2 dimensional graph than it does to load the steps, video, and audio, which already take a decently good ammount of time to load. its not my fault roxor cant program fast loading times for the ps2 and hopefully they'll fix it, and the pile of other problems with itg2 comes out for ps2 (assuming the first one sold well enough to warrent a second)
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Wolfman Jake
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29. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick question. Was it really specifically Roxor that handled porting ITG to PS2? I could have sworn they outsourced the process to another programming company/team.

Regardless, it's ok to call a spade a spade. The load times are absolutely rediculous, although the game is still playable. Nearly instantaneous load times and dynamic screen transitions go a long way in giving a whole game a more polished presentation. Complaining about these programming issues and other bugs is the best way to let Roxor know they need to be more careful next time. Look at the drama over DDR EX US. There were a number of problems that fans went ape(bleep) over, and lo and behold, most of those issues appear to have been rectified with DDR EX 2.
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Rickidi
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30. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, about the loading time, does anyone has an old PS2? Mine takes like 30 seconds just to start a game.... I'm just wondering if it's gonna affect the gameplay frown.gif having to wait 30 seconds for a score screen would really suck frown.gif
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Loogaroo
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31. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another bug:

If you're playing on Event Mode, your scores/unlocks won't save unless A) You manually save in the Options screen or B) you fail a song.
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wrath04
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32. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loogaroo wrote:
Another bug:

If you're playing on Event Mode, your scores/unlocks won't save unless A) You manually save in the Options screen or B) you fail a song.
Thats not a bug. Event mode means that you continusously play, therefore there would be no option to save; hence the manual saving.
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'Ivan
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33. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrath04 wrote:
All of this has been taken care of for the release of ITG2, and this stuff has been talked about a long time ago on RoXor's forum.

Thank goodness.

Um, in case no one's bothered to check this yet, the Triangle button IS NOT an instant quit button OR even as delayed quit button. The only quit buttons I have are the Start and Select buttons, which are delayed quits, and pressing them both at the same time which resets the game.

I'm thinking anyone who has Triangle as instant quit doesn't have the game set to "Dance Pad" for Control-whatever...
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Wolfman Jake
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34. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrath04 wrote:
Loogaroo wrote:
Another bug:

If you're playing on Event Mode, your scores/unlocks won't save unless A) You manually save in the Options screen or B) you fail a song.
Thats not a bug. Event mode means that you continusously play, therefore there would be no option to save; hence the manual saving.


Well, if you don't want to call it a bug, call it a horrible "feature." Loogaroo is absolutely right. Autosave will NOT save your game after playing in Event Mode and then exiting to the main menu. I turned my game on today only to find I had lost a ton of progress. The game WILL autosave after you do a limited set (i.e. you don't have Event Mode turned on) and see the credits and high score entry screen, etc. So now that's TWO things I must do when I play a session of ITG on the PS2. Play a limited set first to set my name so that it appears on my high scores attained later in Event Mode instead of the name EVNT, and then remember to MANUALLY SAVE the game when I'm done, because Autosave doesn't kick in after playing in and then exiting Event Mode. Ugh...
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35. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rampage wrote:
I've got a gripe. Event Mode and failures. If you fail a song in Event Mode, it doesn't drop you back to the song wheel. Nope. It drops you alll the way back to the title screen. I'm used to DDR style event mode that always drops you to the song wheel, no matter what. I found this aspect infuriating to the point where I'd just force quit songs once I'd failed to immediately take me back to the song wheel.


Well, at least there *is* a solution to it, albeit cheap. I wouldn't even play the regular game mode until I figured that little trick out, because I'd be there all day trying to pass a hard song.
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cfusionpm
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36. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfman Jake wrote:
wrath04 wrote:
Loogaroo wrote:
Another bug:

If you're playing on Event Mode, your scores/unlocks won't save unless A) You manually save in the Options screen or B) you fail a song.
Thats not a bug. Event mode means that you continusously play, therefore there would be no option to save; hence the manual saving.


Well, if you don't want to call it a bug, call it a horrible "feature." Loogaroo is absolutely right. Autosave will NOT save your game after playing in Event Mode and then exiting to the main menu. I turned my game on today only to find I had lost a ton of progress. The game WILL autosave after you do a limited set (i.e. you don't have Event Mode turned on) and see the credits and high score entry screen, etc. So now that's TWO things I must do when I play a session of ITG on the PS2. Play a limited set first to set my name so that it appears on my high scores attained later in Event Mode instead of the name EVNT, and then remember to MANUALLY SAVE the game when I'm done, because Autosave doesn't kick in after playing in and then exiting Event Mode. Ugh...


from last night:

am3pkcet (10:33:44 PM): oh
am3pkcet (10:33:49 PM): i found another thing
am3pkcet (10:33:58 PM): first i will explain the ddr equivelant
am3pkcet (10:34:09 PM): with AutoSave turned on in, say, ddr extreme
am3pkcet (10:34:14 PM): and you are in event mode
am3pkcet (10:34:49 PM): if you exit event mode by any means, you see an Autosave screen, saving your data, then the main title
am3pkcet (10:35:08 PM): in itg, if you are playing in event mode with autosave ON
am3pkcet (10:35:20 PM): if you exit to the main screen, no such save is made
am3pkcet (10:35:31 PM): or if it is, you are not notified about it by any means
JJK Justin (10:35:33 PM): So you have to manually do it?
am3pkcet (10:35:38 PM): yes
am3pkcet (10:35:39 PM): BUT
am3pkcet (10:35:45 PM): if you FAIL a song in event mode
am3pkcet (10:35:49 PM): FAIL
am3pkcet (10:35:51 PM): a song
am3pkcet (10:35:53 PM): in event mode
am3pkcet (10:36:13 PM): it will show AutoSaving Game and take you back to the title screen
am3pkcet (10:36:20 PM): WTFFF
JJK Justin (10:36:24 PM): So stupid.
am3pkcet (10:36:42 PM): the point of event mode is to stay in event mode untill you exit
am3pkcet (10:36:45 PM): but if you fail a song
am3pkcet (10:36:48 PM): it boots you out
am3pkcet (10:36:49 PM): BUT
am3pkcet (10:36:56 PM): thats the only way for you to autosave your data
am3pkcet (10:37:00 PM): BRILLIANT
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37. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Ivan wrote:
I'm thinking anyone who has Triangle as instant quit doesn't have the game set to "Dance Pad" for Control-whatever...


Surely if triangle was instant quit then anyone playing controller controller revolution would quit every time they hit up with their right hand.
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38. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:48 pm    Post subject: Um...whoops? ^^;;; Reply with quote

Hey folks - after a bit of testing, I discovered my problem with hitting buttons during game mode. It turns out that I had the settings on dance pad instead of controller.

However, there's still an interface problem here - I've got a controller in slot one and a dance pad in slot two. Unfortunately, there're no options to determine P1 and P2 input seperately - it's all or nothing on that front. Luckily I've got only a four panel (and pushbuttons) dance pad, so I'm able to keep controller play on.

As far as the triangle thing goes - I apologize. It turns out that Triangle only instant-quits during the song select menu. I extrapolated, and, well, was wrong. Sorry. I'll concentrate only on confirmed issues in the future.

Wolfman Jake wrote:
Just a quick question. Was it really specifically Roxor that handled porting ITG to PS2? I could have sworn they outsourced the process to another programming company/team.


Perusing the credits, the only technical people I see credited are at RoXoR (under Programming), RedOctane (under QA), and the Stepmania people. Since no group is specificially credited with anything Playstation-related, I'd have to say that this was an inside job (the butler did it!)

Interesting side note - viewing the Credits under the option menu will bring up a list of other technical people involved. It includes listing Stepmania programmers by name, Info-Zip programmers by name, the JPEG codec liscensing agreement, and so on. Some of the liscensing agreements on there are a bit hilarious to see - if it wasn't for them, I'd use Info-Zip to compress my Katamari Damancy saves.
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39. PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm I don't have a problem with foot codes since I play PIU... but as far as sorting goes... it isn't really neccessary with anything below 110 songs... 70 songs without a sort option is fine with me... hell.. none of the USA home versions of DDR really need the sort option... If Konami made the graphics for a song more noticeable like they are in PIU games you would be able to identify your favorites from their title image/background video
but with DDRs generic backgrounds (with a lot looking similar) you don't really notice them... Pop n Music has graphics that fit each song so you can pass by a song by at a high speed and catch it without sorting (well thats all in Japanese anyway and I can't read it... haha)
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