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what thing about ddr do u hate most
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20. PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Rhythm Rogues] NW330 wrote:
HVAM Challenge with...god knows what


Crossover stream of doom

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I know players and such evolve over time but why can't we have another MAX 300 or MaxX Unlimited chart as a 10? Those were excellent examples of 10s IMO.


I wouldn't even go that far. Max 300 and MU were gimmicks in themselves. The problem with 10s is that they wanted to make them so alien from the other charts. No songs went over 300 bpm in Max or Max 2 (you can count on your hands how many there are now - flow and ATN fro what I remember).

Songs don't have to have really high bpms to be "cool". They don't have to be littered with stops that don't correlate with the beat either (Chaos).

It's real simple. Make it like you would make any other number block: Chart doesn't go over 200 bpm, plays straightforward, 16th streams here and there. You got your stamina song.

Draft another one:

Making a chart like Chaos would be neat if all the stops went with the beat... but I would do it "stutter style" (either tighten the notes or raise the BPM, then layer the stops so that it stutters the pattern to make it on beat).

Look up "dancing box" for stepmania if my explanation isn't too clear.

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I also am kinda annoyed that after the whole Roxor/ITG2 thing Konami didn't implement the Marathon idea. I'd love Nonstops/Oni courses that operated that way. Yeah we got the Trick Oni but...scripted mods are far cooler. But that I can forgive.


When Trick Oni came out, I about peed myself. I thought the idea was so innovative. The fact that they didn't build on it bothers me.
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21. PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddr is poopy compared to itg

enough said
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22. PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legendary N8 wrote:
Travis Touchdown wrote:
A.) Konami can't keep the banners of the songs from other music games (excluding beatmania, since it doesn't have any), nor the special videos (Guitar Freaks/Drummania for example. EVERY FREAKIN' SONG HAS A SPECIAL VIDEO! It took you 10 mixes to realize "Gee, let's put the music video for 7 Cheers for This Child in SN & then Venus for SN2! Wow, we finally kept a GF/DM video!")
A) That one never really bothered me - I'm a DM fan and I never gave it much thought about the banners crossing games. That's just me though.
But why waste time making all new banners for songs that already have them? Pop'n banners just have the gerne removed, song title moved somewhere else &/or translated, & then add the artist, which I like, since they're SLIGHTY changing it. But no, they consider it a beatmania song & that a banner doesn't exist for it, so time spend on the game itself is wasted making banners that they could've copy & pasted....
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23. PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Max 300 and Unlimited are nowhere NEAR gimmicks. ESPECIALLY when you compare them to crap like Chaos, HDV, and FaxX. disturb.gif

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I wouldn't call ITG "more evolved".


Really? 'Cause I sure as hell would. Highly sophisticated game engine capable of 100 fps, timing that could actually handle 12th notes (seriously, what the hell, Konami - this isn't 1998 anymore), hi-def monitor, pads that didn't suck, want me to go on? I absolutely love Extreme - don't get me wrong. But you're sounding like a huge DDR fanboy just refuting every idea that's being brought up in this thread. With a title like "what thing about ddr do u hate the most", pretty much all the negatives about DDR are being brought up and - face it - since SN, there are a lot of them. Konami had a great thing going for them back in 2003. SN completely fucked everything up with retarded syncing, absolutely no edit data support (which, considering this was a worldwide release and American players could actually benefit from it, really hurts Konami's credibility), pads from a distributor that can't make pads, crappy licenses, and no previous Dancemania licenses. I'm not keeping up on SN2 at this point because, frankly, I'll play it once or twice and then get incredibly bored. It was bad enough for Konami to sue Roxor (which they did deserve - but I don't think it should have caused as much commotion as it did, seeing as how DDR was "dead", Konami's profits weren't being affected by it, and all US DDR cabinents were illegal), but then Konami has to incorporate some of ITG's aspects (marvellous's always enabled, for example). Combined with sucky timing, it doesn't work out. We got a beta for SN2 for PS2. Does Konami care? Probably not.

This is probably tl;dr for people, but it's no lie that Extreme was amazing. Very nice songlist, good licenses, still decent pads, and good syncing. SN came because of Konami's need to be dominant in the dance game industry, and DDR's only continuing because it's hanging on by a thread, in my eyes. Every game with have some level of competition, don't say that's unique to ITG. DDR is selling out, ITG was possibly our last hope at a true dance game revival, and look what happened.

In response to the OP, my complaints with DDR are:






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24. PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Songs are not hard enough, the only REALLY hard song is Pluto Relinquish.
Konami is running out of songs, so their just scrapping old ones with new ones.
Konami is losing it right now, Roxor has ITG3 and is whooping DDR now.
I hope Konami can keep me playing DDR, cause it's getting boring frown.gif
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25. PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis Touchdown wrote:
Legendary N8 wrote:
Travis Touchdown wrote:
A.) Konami can't keep the banners of the songs from other music games (excluding beatmania, since it doesn't have any), nor the special videos (Guitar Freaks/Drummania for example. EVERY FREAKIN' SONG HAS A SPECIAL VIDEO! It took you 10 mixes to realize "Gee, let's put the music video for 7 Cheers for This Child in SN & then Venus for SN2! Wow, we finally kept a GF/DM video!")
A) That one never really bothered me - I'm a DM fan and I never gave it much thought about the banners crossing games. That's just me though.
But why waste time making all new banners for songs that already have them? Pop'n banners just have the gerne removed, song title moved somewhere else &/or translated, & then add the artist, which I like, since they're SLIGHTY changing it. But no, they consider it a beatmania song & that a banner doesn't exist for it, so time spend on the game itself is wasted making banners that they could've copy & pasted....


I'm no copyright expert, but there might have been "legalese problems" with doing that. Also, they would be (theoretically) be using graphic designers for the banners - and thus you would should probably be worried about less funding going to other aspects of the game instead of time. Banners don't take too long to make (from my experience).
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26. PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
timing that could actually handle 12th notes (seriously, what the hell, Konami - this isn't 1998 anymore)


12th notes have been around since 3rd mix. I don't see why running 12th notes would be problematic. Do you have any backing to support this? Also, I would think that if anything, there would be problems with 16th notes rather than 12th.

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hi-def monitor, pads that didn't suck


Totally in agreement with you there - although I thought the panels for ITG were too large (but my feet are size 9, so that might be my problem).

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I absolutely love Extreme - don't get me wrong.


I'm not defending DDR as a whole, just aspects of it. I wasn't too fond of DDR EX - just for the record. PSM/PSMO was a disaster [citing something particular].

Quote:
But you're sounding like a huge DDR fanboy just refuting every idea that's being brought up in this thread.


Please try READING what I write next time. I hate it when kiddies come to class unprepared. If you think I am refuting every idea that's brought up, you need to work on your English.

Quote:

With a title like "what thing about ddr do u hate the most", pretty much all the negatives about DDR are being brought up and - face it - since SN, there are a lot of them.


I've had problems with DDR since 3rd mix. Believe me, my stack of complaints, I assure you, will far exceed yours. No more double length songs, their idea to use a FC as a AA was a problem, the constantly changing timing window, the songs I like getting dumped, and so on.


Quote:
Konami had a great thing going for them back in 2003.


LMFAO no they didn't. The scene was already dying by then. Ask any veteran.

Quote:
SN completely fucked everything up with retarded syncing, absolutely no edit data support (which, considering this was a worldwide release and American players could actually benefit from it, really hurts Konami's credibility), pads from a distributor that can't make pads, crappy licenses, and no previous Dancemania licenses.


The pad problem existed before SuperNOVA - just a little help for ya there.

Edit data, even when it was available, wasn't common. People came in and put their DXY edits in (or whatever they made) and ran with that, but not all machines had that configuration, so they never got the idea if it was a hot idea or not - hence no edit support.

I agree with the licensing complaint - as I did earlier on in one of my posts.


Quote:
It was bad enough for Konami to sue Roxor (which they did deserve - but I don't think it should have caused as much commotion as it did, seeing as how DDR was "dead", Konami's profits weren't being affected by it, and all US DDR cabinents were illegal), but then Konami has to incorporate some of ITG's aspects (marvellous's always enabled, for example).


Do you know why Konami sued Roxor? It was because of likeness rights. I love a lot of aspects of ITG - but when they tried to install it into DDR cabinets, problems (such as sucky pads), became a problem, along with likeness rights. Kids would didn't know better would go play on a machine that had a DDR maquis, and ITG was running on it. Hence they thought it was "DDR". They wouldn't have even bothered if they didn't think it was cannibalizing their sales, hence why they don't bother with the beta cabbies.

Marvelous was going to be put into the Max series, but got omitted last minute. There's evidence in this if you go to play on an EX or Max machine and you see the "white flash". Marvelous is still there, just not recorded.


Quote:
This is probably tl;dr for people, but it's no lie that Extreme was amazing. Very nice songlist, good licenses, still decent pads, and good syncing.


I'm gonna put money down that you started playing on a DDR EX. This probably explains why you have formed your opinions the way you have. The syncing for Extreme had to be troubleshot as well when it was first released. The licenses though weren't all that great though (play on a Max 2 or 5th mix machine and you will see what I mean).

Quote:
SN came because of Konami's need to be dominant in the dance game industry, and DDR's only continuing because it's hanging on by a thread, in my eyes.


Erm... what about pump? Dominant in the dance game industry? Hardly. It keeled over with Extreme. People got bored and Extreme was still there. The scene died before you even entered it, I promise you that.

Quote:
Every game with have some level of competition, don't say that's unique to ITG. DDR is selling out, ITG was possibly our last hope at a true dance game revival, and look what happened.


No - really. I saw what the dancing game scene looked like pre ITG, and it doesn't look the same. There are a LOT more tech players now than there were 5 years ago - and virtually no freestyles. There's cool people here and there, but most of them are just score trolls.
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27. PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legendary N8 wrote:

No - really. I saw what the dancing game scene looked like pre ITG, and it doesn't look the same. There are a LOT more tech players now than there were 5 years ago - and virtually no freestyles. There's cool people here and there, but most of them are just score trolls.


Hit the nail right on the head with that one, unfortunately. Thinking back, it WAS right around the time ITG came out that the DDR scene shifted. Kinda sad, since the scene was just a tad more casual before then.

As for what I hate? The fact that I never had quite enough stamina to overtake the 10 footers.
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28. PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being an 8 year veteran, I could agree with the whole DDR scene shift. Back when ITG didn't come along, there wasn't as much whoring for good scores. Sure we had players who wanted to get really good scores and stuff, but it wasn't as competitive as now. Never did we have people kicking machines whenever they got a single great, and freestyle was just as big as tech.

Now it is somewhat more annoying. Never did I see so much drama for scores.

But I digress far t his is an anti-DDR thread. I dunno what else to apply to this conversation.
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29. PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
timing that could actually handle 12th notes (seriously, what the hell, Konami - this isn't 1998 anymore)


12th notes have been around since 3rd mix. I don't see why running 12th notes would be problematic. Do you have any backing to support this? Also, I would think that if anything, there would be problems with 16th notes rather than 12th.


You don't? Because DDR's engine cannot handle twelfth notes. It calculates beats based on divisions of 64ths and, since 12 doesn't go into 64 evenly, they're messed up. See this thread if you still don't understand.

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hi-def monitor, pads that didn't suck


Totally in agreement with you there - although I thought the panels for ITG were too large (but my feet are size 9, so that might be my problem).


Still, if you're hitting the inside or the center of the panel, it's not much difference. But yeah.

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Quote:
I absolutely love Extreme - don't get me wrong.


I'm not defending DDR as a whole, just aspects of it. I wasn't too fond of DDR EX - just for the record. PSM/PSMO was a disaster [citing something particular].


Why? PSMH/PSMO were difficulties that were legitimately challenging. It always irked me that PSMH was just PS on mirror for most of the song, but PSMO's chart is pretty damn good.

Quote:
Quote:
But you're sounding like a huge DDR fanboy just refuting every idea that's being brought up in this thread.


Please try READING what I write next time. I hate it when kiddies come to class unprepared. If you think I am refuting every idea that's brought up, you need to work on your English.


My English is quite fine, thanks. In fact, your very latest post proves my point.

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Quote:
With a title like "what thing about ddr do u hate the most", pretty much all the negatives about DDR are being brought up and - face it - since SN, there are a lot of them.


I've had problems with DDR since 3rd mix. Believe me, my stack of complaints, I assure you, will far exceed yours. No more double length songs, their idea to use a FC as a AA was a problem, the constantly changing timing window, the songs I like getting dumped, and so on.


I'm not saying there weren't problems before, Sir English Major. I'm saying that since SN, there have been more.

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Quote:
Konami had a great thing going for them back in 2003.


LMFAO no they didn't. The scene was already dying by then. Ask any veteran.


Yes, the scene was dying (moreso in Japan, but that's insignificant). I'm not saying the series was going well, but Extreme was definitely one of the best mixes. If Konami had stuck to the same formula they used for created Extreme, SuperNOVA may not suck as much. But look what we got.

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SN completely fucked everything up with retarded syncing, absolutely no edit data support (which, considering this was a worldwide release and American players could actually benefit from it, really hurts Konami's credibility), pads from a distributor that can't make pads, crappy licenses, and no previous Dancemania licenses.


The pad problem existed before SuperNOVA - just a little help for ya there.

Edit data, even when it was available, wasn't common. People came in and put their DXY edits in (or whatever they made) and ran with that, but not all machines had that configuration, so they never got the idea if it was a hot idea or not - hence no edit support.

I agree with the licensing complaint - as I did earlier on in one of my posts.


No, not really. I've played on awesome DDR pads that have stood up to weekends of stomping by upper-tier players. That was on Extreme. My local mall got SuperNOVA, and in less than a year, the pads render the machine almost unplayable. I can't pass -Respect-. Look at DigitalLife: a brand new machine was giving us problems - even an LED light broke within a day of play! If that doesn't prove how crappy an SN machine is made, I don't know what does. The pads and the machine's parts on a whole suck.

Wow, that's bull if I've ever seen it. You think Konami nerfed edit data support because arcades didn't know if it was a hot idea or not? Let me enlighten you before you pull some more crap out of your ass. Konami's division for making the memory card slots closed down and Konami never bothered to check on it. So while SN was coming out for PS2, Konami was promising edit data support and even the manual for SN CS tells us that edit data is present. Guess what? It can never be implemented. Yes, Konami lied.

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It was bad enough for Konami to sue Roxor (which they did deserve - but I don't think it should have caused as much commotion as it did, seeing as how DDR was "dead", Konami's profits weren't being affected by it, and all US DDR cabinents were illegal), but then Konami has to incorporate some of ITG's aspects (marvellous's always enabled, for example).


Do you know why Konami sued Roxor? It was because of likeness rights. I love a lot of aspects of ITG - but when they tried to install it into DDR cabinets, problems (such as sucky pads), became a problem, along with likeness rights. Kids would didn't know better would go play on a machine that had a DDR maquis, and ITG was running on it. Hence they thought it was "DDR". They wouldn't have even bothered if they didn't think it was cannibalizing their sales, hence why they don't bother with the beta cabbies.

Marvelous was going to be put into the Max series, but got omitted last minute. There's evidence in this if you go to play on an EX or Max machine and you see the "white flash". Marvelous is still there, just not recorded.


That's part of it, yes. Intellectual property played a role. But I believe most of the problem was the fact that the Konami arcade cabinet, patented, was being used by Roxor to gain profits. Just the fact that two games are similar doesn't warrant a lawsuit, because Konami doesn't have a patent on games which involve stepping on panels to music. Roxor couldn't have faulted if they didn't rip out a DDR cab for their own purposes.

Sorry, wrong again. Marvellous's didn't even exist before Extreme. Max and Max2 don't feature the flashing - go try it out yourself. They were going to be always-enabled in Extreme, until a bunch of people in Japan complained about it during beta testing. Guess what happened? Konami listened (whoa!) and took them out, but left the flashing. I have no problem with that. But the timing for getting a marvellous is very narrow - and if I get all perfects on a song in SN2, maybe I won't get the AAA that I deserve. Konami just combined an ITG aspect that worked in ITG and applied it to DDR where it doesn't work.

Quote:
Quote:
This is probably tl;dr for people, but it's no lie that Extreme was amazing. Very nice songlist, good licenses, still decent pads, and good syncing.


I'm gonna put money down that you started playing on a DDR EX. This probably explains why you have formed your opinions the way you have. The syncing for Extreme had to be troubleshot as well when it was first released. The licenses though weren't all that great though (play on a Max 2 or 5th mix machine and you will see what I mean).


You'd win that bet. I did. Truthfully, I started on both Max2 and EX. But that's beside the point. Okay, let's assume you're right saying that the syncing had to be troubleshot. We got a patch for SN, didn't we? What did it do? Almost nothing. It fixed some songs, but threw others offsync or neglected to treat the bad ones. At least EX was troubleshot in beta. We got the patch months after SN was released.

The licenses were awesome for EX. Senorita (Speedy Mix), Cartoon Heroes, Irresitiblement, Love <3 Shine... Not gonna say things like Waka Laka, Fantasty, and Little Boy weren't awesome licenses on Max2, but at least they got pulled into Ex. We lost all of the songs I just mentioned on SN. I have played on 5th mixes and Max2's, but it doesn't mean I don't like Ex better. My god.

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SN came because of Konami's need to be dominant in the dance game industry, and DDR's only continuing because it's hanging on by a thread, in my eyes.


Erm... what about pump? Dominant in the dance game industry? Hardly. It keeled over with Extreme. People got bored and Extreme was still there. The scene died before you even entered it, I promise you that.


Erm, what about it? I'll tell you. Once Pump machines started appearing in the US, Konami sued Andamiro, too. Konami felt threatened. Konami won, and Andamiro was not to appear in the US market again (though that doesn't explain PIUPRO - there may have been a time aspect of the lawsuit). History repeats itself, eh? YES, dominant. Hypocritcial Konami couldn't let any other dance game company in the US, for whatever reason. Andamiro and Roxor got sued. SN only exists because there's a market again. I assure you that if Roxor didn't make ITG, SN would not have existed. And what the hell does that have to do with the fact the series died from EX? Apparently, there's this new game called "Dance Dance Revolution SuperNOVA" out in some arcades. Why don't you check it out.

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Every game with have some level of competition, don't say that's unique to ITG. DDR is selling out, ITG was possibly our last hope at a true dance game revival, and look what happened.


No - really. I saw what the dancing game scene looked like pre ITG, and it doesn't look the same. There are a LOT more tech players now than there were 5 years ago - and virtually no freestyles. There's cool people here and there, but most of them are just score trolls.


It might not be the same, but trackers like NNR still existed for DDR scores. And so what if the game is more tech? Personally, I'm a tech player, yes. It's because I have more fun with the game if I'm competing. It's a drive. For some reason in your mind, it's bad to be tech. But that's just saying my way of having fun is wrong. If you don't like the community, you don't have to be a part of it.
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30. PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things I'm not lovin' about DDR right now:

1. The weird obsession with eighth-note jumps present in the newer mixes, starting around Supernova. Sure, they were there before (End of the Century?), but in the newer games, they're EVERYWHERE. They really break up the flow of a stepchart when they're overused like that. I'm talking about songs like Flow (Jammin' Ragga), Feelings Won't Fade, the newer La Bamba, and many others.

2. Lack of background videos. Extreme 2 did it right. Disney Channel did it right.

3. The new tens. They're just a little much, I think. I've seen people play Max 300 SMMM Oni in the arcade, and I've seen people play Trip Machine Phoenix Oni Doubles in the arcade. I'm afraid to touch these songs even with stable arcade pads and a bar to grab in an emergency. When you buy the home version, Konami gives you a soft pad and tells you to pass these things.

4. Whoever rated the stepcharts in Supernova 2. I can pass Maxx Unlimited (ten feet) but not Paranoia Hades trick mode (eight feet)? That seems a little fishy.

Other than that, I don't really have too many issues with the game. And as someone who enjoys easier, more fun stepcharts, those problems hardly matter at all, except the background videos thing.
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31. PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

3. The new tens. They're just a little much, I think. I've seen people play Max 300 SMMM Oni in the arcade, and I've seen people play Trip Machine Phoenix Oni Doubles in the arcade. I'm afraid to touch these songs even with stable arcade pads and a bar to grab in an emergency. When you buy the home version, Konami gives you a soft pad and tells you to pass these things.


why would you ever complain about a music game having songs that are too hard? these songs are what make people still continue to play the game today; a reason for DDR veterans to get better. if konami stopped making DDR harder, i would have stopped playing years ago.

regarding the crappy stepcharts of some of the newer boss songs, i cant argue with you there(FaXX was completely garbage), but stuff like paranoia hades and trip machine pheonix are pretty good charts that almost make me wanna practice and get good enough to pass them at arcade.
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32. PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh. I wish there were more slow, reading-challenge tens. Bag was fun.
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33. PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hlavco wrote:
Eh. I wish there were more slow, reading-challenge tens. Bag was yet another tempo gimmick.
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34. PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MUTE+(plus) wrote:
Hlavco wrote:
Eh. I wish there were more slow, reading-challenge tens. Bag was WAY TOO EASY for a ten once you apply speed mods.
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35. PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MUTE+(plus) wrote:
Hlavco wrote:
Eh. I wish there were more slow, reading-challenge tens. Bag was the first tempo gimmick 10 and people should stop bashing it because they can't read it without speed mods..

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36. PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the things I hate the most related to DDR is the Fanboish comunity. The people who would kill you if they see you use speed mods or the bar. They were put there for a reason: to be used, if it doesn't disqualify you, it's legal. So what if you hate to read thightly packed arrows that take half an hour to get to the top of the screen.

The beginner mode, it has a retarded background dancer that always brings his feet back to the middle and all of the newbs play that way. When you try to talk to them, they say: If the character does it then it's the right thing to do.

The new formula to make a ten footer, bigger speed changes and more retarded crossovers. Seriously, it was ok on PS and on PSMO but it got out of control on SN.

The dedis. They suck at every aspect compared to ITG's. The sound is crappy, the sensors suck even if the cab is new, the screen is frking small and the arrows blend with the background what ever arows you use.

The syncing is just horrible, enough said.

The lack of e-amuse (probably spelled it wrong) if we would have more official ways to keep our scores on DDR, I would probably play it more to get the boss songs enabled all the time. But no, nothing for us stupid North Americans.

The recycled songs, a lot of them come from other bemani AC and in America, we get crappy pop music with even more crappier stepcharts. And having a bit more than J-Pop in arcades would be cool too.

Yeah, if you read all of this, you probably realised that I love ITG way more than DDR, R21. But even though, I can still enjoy a few rounds of Extreme when I go to the Cinema. I have started on DDR but I have evolved to ITG laugh.gif
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QWERTYkid911
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37. PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MUTE+(plus) wrote:
Hlavco wrote:
Eh. I wish there were more slow, reading-challenge tens. Bag was WAY TOO EASY for a ten even WITHOUT speed mods.
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PureBlue
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38. PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta agree with most of what FwAnkY Bouy said. It shouldn't matter if someone uses a bar, or uses speed mods. But people are so obsessed, and usually so jealous (though this isn't always the case, sometimes people have somewhat legitimate reasons) that they need to find something wrong with how people play. And I also hate how beginner players never seem to listen to advice. Most of the time when I try to tell people to not return to the center, they get pissed for no reason and tell me to %@*& off. Or if they don't get pissed, they just say "BUT DATS WUT DA BAKGRUND DNCER DUZ".

Regarding SuperNOVA dedicabs, I've only played on two that were as good as an Extreme, pad condition-wise. Then again, I've also played on Extremes that were just as bad as a Supernova dedicab.
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ʎɐb sı ʞ01ɹǝɥs
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39. PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*5-MFB* RandomNinja wrote:
MUTE+(plus) wrote:
Hlavco wrote:
Eh. I wish there were more slow, reading-challenge tens. Bag was the first tempo gimmick 10 and people should stop bashing it because they can't read it without speed mods..

Bag was the first tempo gimmick 10? Hardly. All the 10s are tempo gimmicks (Max series = doubled tempos). You could say that Bag was the first halved tempo gimmick 10, but that's about it.
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