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ITG and Andamiro.
 
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Tomo_kun
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0. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: ITG and Andamiro. Reply with quote

I am being serious in this topic. I am, in no way being negative to ITG, DDR or Pump.

Konami sued andamiro for design rights over the arcade machine. IIRC, andamiro has to pay royalties to Konami now. With ITG, will Andamiro still pay royalties per machine, or will they have annother suit?
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1. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok....so Konami will sue ITG for their own pads, but theyre fine with them stealing DDR pads for the first mix's use
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Tomo_kun
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2. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xuxa n1gga wrote:
ok....so Konami will sue ITG for their own pads, but theyre fine with them stealing DDR pads for the first mix's use


DDR isn't supposed to be here anyway.
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ICNH
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3. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just wondering if Konami will file a lawsuit against Roxor Games, using their cabinet, almost identical gameplay, etc. But maybe if Konami is done with DDR, they won't care. So if they don't file anything, we pretty much know DDR is dead.
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diddrstrait
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4. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the thing is the only cabinets that are supposed to even be here are america ones (DDR US 1st mix and DDR USA). that's it. All of the Korean and Japanese machines aren't supposed to be seen outside of their respective countries. I don't think konami really CAN sue as long as the upgrades are going into japanese and korean machines (which probably make up 90% of the machines in the US anyway). Konami isn't making any money on the sale of DDR cabinets in america since they aren't SELLING DDR cabinets here, so I don't think they can sue roxor since they aren't losing any money on the machines either.
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5. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roxor legally owns the machimes they have ITG installed on, right? What can possibly be illegal about using a machine you have legal rights to own to play whatever? Konami can't sue because Roxor made the software, but now that they're going to start selling upgrade kits (that could potientally...? I don't know the specs needed to install ITG) go into a DDR USA cabinet, Konami could find a loophole somewhere to sue Roxor.
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VxJasonxV
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6. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syncognition wrote:
the thing is the only cabinets that are supposed to even be here are america ones (DDR US 1st mix and DDR USA). that's it. All of the Korean and Japanese machines aren't supposed to be seen outside of their respective countries. I don't think konami really CAN sue as long as the upgrades are going into japanese and korean machines (which probably make up 90% of the machines in the US anyway). Konami isn't making any money on the sale of DDR cabinets in america since they aren't SELLING DDR cabinets here, so I don't think they can sue roxor since they aren't losing any money on the machines either.
Wait, what?
That doesn't make any sense... not at all.
Just because the machine is outside the Territory doesn't mean the damage isn't done.
Regarding ITG1, Konami COULD sue for royalties since the game (GET IT?!) absolutely requires the use of their own intellectual property.
Regarding ITG2, I would assume the Royalties lawsuit still applies, but Andamiro being the manufacturer still pays, not Roxor.
I'm not positive on that however.
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nekura
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7. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-Man wrote:
Roxor legally owns the machimes they have ITG installed on, right? What can possibly be illegal about using a machine you have legal rights to own to play whatever? Konami can't sue because Roxor made the software, but now that they're going to start selling upgrade kits (that could potientally...? I don't know the specs needed to install ITG) go into a DDR USA cabinet, Konami could find a loophole somewhere to sue Roxor.

You have things mixed up. ITG started as an upgrade kit for DDR machines (and will continue to be available in that form), but they are also making a cabinet available for ITG2.
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Rancidfish
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8. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the thing to consider is JAMMA conventions and whatnot. The arcade manager owns the cabinet, and the cabinet must follow certain conventions of compatibility. It's totally legal for an arcade owner to upgrade an Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 machine to a Tekken Tag machine. The button layout would come out kind of funny if they didn't make some changes (which they are legally entitled to do, btw), but it's still legal for them to do so. And it's not like Midway is going to sue Namco for using their intellectual property.

Similarly, the DDR machines are Konami's intellectual property. However, this only means that Roxor (and Andamiro) aren't allowed to make machines like that. Arcade owners are allowed to do whatever they want with those machines, and thus it doesn't matter if they leave them DDR EX, install ItG, or install Tekken 4. Konami isn't going to sue Roxor or Namco.

However, the time that Roxor and Andamiro are going to have some problems getting sued is now that they're actually making cabinets. The arrow layout is the same, so the cabinet must be significantly different in other respects (sensor design, bar design, lights and speakers) to avoid suit. Which I believe they have gone through with.[/i]
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diddrstrait
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9. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VxJasonxV wrote:
Syncognition wrote:
the thing is the only cabinets that are supposed to even be here are america ones (DDR US 1st mix and DDR USA). that's it. All of the Korean and Japanese machines aren't supposed to be seen outside of their respective countries. I don't think konami really CAN sue as long as the upgrades are going into japanese and korean machines (which probably make up 90% of the machines in the US anyway). Konami isn't making any money on the sale of DDR cabinets in america since they aren't SELLING DDR cabinets here, so I don't think they can sue roxor since they aren't losing any money on the machines either.
Wait, what?
That doesn't make any sense... not at all.
Just because the machine is outside the Territory doesn't mean the damage isn't done.
Regarding ITG1, Konami COULD sue for royalties since the game (GET IT?!) absolutely requires the use of their own intellectual property.
Regarding ITG2, I would assume the Royalties lawsuit still applies, but Andamiro being the manufacturer still pays, not Roxor.
I'm not positive on that however.


I was only addressing the issue of konami suing because roxor is "stealing DDR cabinets." when american arcade owners import ddr cabinets from japan/korea, they more than likely are buying it from another arcade (or third party distributor like channelbeat or whatever) and not an official konami distributor. Konami isn't making any money on arcade DDR, so I don't think they could sue for using DDR cabinets. I don't think it really MATTERS what arcade owners do with cabinets (I've seen Tekken 4 installed in an old modified MvC2 and vice-versa).

I didn't want to even go into intellectual property...that mess is just too complicated to address. I do personally believe that konami suing roxor for theft of intellectual property they'll just come off as crybabies (in my eyes anyway). How many FPS, RPG, fighting, driving, any-other-genre games have clones using almost exactly the same gameplay mechanics? Konami has every right to sue, but I don't believe they have any reason to.
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10. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might I remind you that I said nothing about the JAMMA conversion kits? Im more worried about Andamiro.
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11. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomo_kun wrote:
Might I remind you that I said nothing about the JAMMA conversion kits? Im more worried about Andamiro.


and I wasn't referring to your post. look at the posts after yours and you'll see what I was addressing.
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12. PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that the lawsuit between Konami and Andimiro was lost by Konami to Andimiro, resulting in the fact that we only have one US release.
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Tomo_kun
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13. PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flarone wrote:
I thought that the lawsuit between Konami and Andimiro was lost by Konami to Andimiro, resulting in the fact that we only have one US release.


Different countrys. IIRC, Korea andamiro won, japan Konami won and America konami won.

There are many, many theories as to why KOA's arcade division closed (Namco killed by importing, the fact that arcades are dead, etc). KOA closing was the reason why we only had 2 USA releases.
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14. PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:32 pm    Post subject: Arcade Right Reply with quote

Tomo_kun wrote:
Different countrys. IIRC, Korea andamiro won, japan Konami won and America konami won.

Actually, after Konami won a preliminary injunction in Korea, the infringment suits were dropped by both parties. That's as far as the cases ever got in court. Konami issued a press release stating that in exchange for both companies dropping their suits, Andamiro would pay Konami and unspecified amount of money. And that's all that was ever said by either company on the topic. (Neither company commented on the PIU patent. But since it mysteriously vanished we assume that Andamiro acknowledged that it was an infringing patent in their agreement with Konami.)

In any case, Andamiro definitely has Konami's permission as a result of this. If another suit were to happen then it would be over a new issue entirely.
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15. PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly is Andamiro anyway?

And this has been beaten to death a long time ago. I personally think that if RoXoR gets sued, then that's their personal issue, not ours. All we should care about is whether we have a game to play or not. We're not the ones making profit off of a product so we shouldn't have to worry about money issues. Would you want someone else to know your credit and bank account information? Of course not! They're not going to pay your bills and we're not going to pay RoXoR's bills so leave their financial matters alone.

Note that no member of RoXoR has posted yet. I guess that this is because they are sick of seeing the same topic repeatedly over on their forums (on roxorgames, not itgfreak).
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16. PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[RiVAL] LittleMike wrote:
What exactly is Andamiro anyway?
The manufacturer of Pump.
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18. PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

let's see..... :rolls dice:: .....3 for bumping year old thread?

EDIT: make that perma-ban after I actually read the post

EDIT AGAIN: ::reads guy's profile:: Thank you mods, always one step ahead riiight.gif
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